Welcome to Roundtable Law College
one of the world's leading non-academic law colleges

About the college

Roundtable Law College was established by a prolife suicide prevention Christian prayer ministry in Cairns on the 23^rd March 2002 at a public meeting at the RSL Club Function Room in Cairns attended by about 50 people. This included a 2hr address by the founding non-academic Principal, and a short address by a leading practicing Cairns Barrister.

What does non-academic mean?

Non-academic law college means non-lawyers do their best to explain to other non-lawyers how the legal system works using plain non - lawyer language and explanations. There are no form of certificates of competency issued, nor is there anyone qualified to issue them.

In a nutshell – Roundtable Law College attempts to make it as quick and easy as possible to access the most authoritative, practical and affordable information possible ASAP. Eg. our library (we believe) is Australia's #1 non-academic law library for non-lawyers & those representing themselves. (under construction)

Where are courses held?

Wherever the college is invited and people need help in Australia. And wherever no suitable affordable help appears to be available locally.

Since 2002, courses have been held for students in Cairns, Rockhampton, Gatton, Brisbane, Kempsey, Western Sydney, South Sydney, Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth.

In the future, it is also hoped to conduct courses in all of the following areas if invited:
QLD: Brisbane, Cairns, Townsville, Mackay, Rockhampton, Bundaberg & Toowoomba;
NSW: Sydney, Orange, Newcastle, Lismore, Wagga Wagga & Wollongong;
Melbourne, Hobart, Canberra, Adelaide, Perth & Darwin;

Plus many other cities & towns from 2008 to 2013 including

Topics May Include:

• self help legal tips

• DIY legal tips

• getting legal system to work for you

• mckenzie friend

• mud map – UCPR notice to summary judgment

• 19 good faith indicators

• QLD UCPR 1999 Index

• QLD UCPR court form index

• SUPER HOT KEYWORD LIST of important words to study in UCPR

• dispelling non-lawyer court procedure myths

• UCPR general reading and study suggestions selection

• solicitor fee schedule – Qld Supreme Court

• solicitor client service & costs agreement

• no win no pay traps – costs follow the events – loser pays winners legal bills

• no win no pay – is a slippery slide / quicksand to bankruptcy if you lose

• no win no pay – is a slippery slide / quicksand to bankruptcy if solicitor is incompetent

• no win no pay – solicitor ongoing costs (not fees) may force discontinuance and then a solicitor can charge you for all time billed against the so-called no win no pay case

• pleadings – like playing table tennis

• NSW Justice Campbell – purpose of pleadings

• beware of greedy unethical solicitors

• Justice Davies points finger at solicitor lies - putting opponents to proof

• “The Cartel – Lawyers and their 9 Magic Tricks”

• making complaint against Qld solicitor or barrister

• current case law – a real problem for non-lawyers self-representing

• no objection taken – impact on appeals

• advantages of out of court settlement

• balancing settling vs fighting in court

• Butterworths Concise Australian Legal Dictionary study guide

• ...under construction

Principal's comment on Section 5

To be truthful, if our primary and secondary school education system, legislators, courts, solicitors and barristers did their jobs properly, there would be no need for Roundtable Law College to exist. But it does exist. And for very good reasons. There is a joke in Catholic circles which says:
“When choosing a Priest to hear your confession – penitent beware.” This is NOT a joke!
“When it comes to engaging a solicitor or barrister – buyer beware.”
Before engaging a solicitor, and placing money when asked into a solicitor's trust account, have a look at the negative experiences some have with solicitors. Use this link.

Principal's comment on whole course

under construction

Enrollment

Under construction. Please use this temporary contact link if you require an alert when information is available online.

Roundtable Law College Butterworths Study Guide

Official Roundtable Law College student dictionary (since 2002)
“Butterworths Concise Australian Legal Dictionary”
Butterworths is a mini-encyclopedia of law for any non-lawyer trying to unravel how the legal system really works, even from the perspective of avoiding legal problems, briefing solicitors, understanding what solicitors are saying, and reducing legal costs.

Why was the college established?

The ministry has been a stakeholder in Australia's justice system since 1993. It is within the scope of the ministry's activities to assist distressed clients to deal with the causal factors of whatever stress is affecting them.

Unfortunately in the past, when the direct causal factor in client stress has been of a legal nature, the ministry has had nowhere to refer clients to if they cannot afford the services of a solicitor and have been denied or are ineligible for legal aid. (The sad truth is most people always have been and always be ineligible for legal aid when having to deal with very stressful and important legal matters. Eg. WA Legal Aid; - the situation in WA is very similar in every state, territory and jurisdiction in Australia.)

Whenever this situation occurs now, it has Roundtable Law College to use instead of simply having nowhere to refer distressed (and often suicidal) clients to, and simply turning them away, as happens with other stakeholders in the legal system including solicitors, barristers and unresourced and under-resourced legal aid services.

The ministry passionately believes... it is simply unacceptable for a system to call itself a justice system, if 100% of those who want to know how the justice system can work for them, or who need to use and rely on the justice system, have no affordable and timely access to the information needed, and have no practical means of relying on the justice system to achieve a timely, just, equitable, and low-cost outcome.

The Legal Rights of Every Australian

For the reasons given above, the ministry believes every Australian has a right to justice and to an affordable justice system that:

• will work for them and their loved ones whenever they need it to;

• is as less stressful to use as is possible;

• is focused on the best possible outcome possible for users;

• does not allow solicitors & barristers to exploit & profiteer;

• provides open access allowing clients to learn how to use the justice system;

• an informed reasonable person would agree dispenses justice;

• ensures the poor cannot be bullied and taken advantage of by the rich;

• dispenses justice expediently;

• interferes as little as possible with the ordinary daily life of clients & stakeholders;

Report Card Qld Judiciary & Legal System

Report Card ticks for - Qld Supreme Court Chief Justice Paul de Jersey -
Report Card crosses for Qld Supreme Court Chief Justice Paul de Jersey -
Report Card crosses for members of Qld Bar Association - Qld Law Society -

Well Done Qld Judiciary – so many improvements

Fortunately, governments, courts, universities, bar associations, law societies, plus many publicly and privately funded stakeholders do share the ministry's passion re protecting the legal rights of every Australian. For example:

• an informed reasonable person can generally understand most court decisions

• attorney-generals investigate and do appeal sentences acting on a complaint

• court registrars do tax / slash / mutilate solicitor accounts if over-charged

• court registries are very very helpful re procedures – not legal advice

• court websites are evolving rapidly

• courts do allow payments by installments of fines etc based on capacity to pay

• courts do check (tax) solicitor's accounts re a complaint of overcharging

• courts do have public galleries - allows self-representing to observe procedures

• courts do provide 24/7 services for urgent court orders

• courts do provide conference rooms to help facilitate out of court settlements

• courts do provide download rules, forms etc

• courts do schedule regular directions hearings giving applicants access to judges

• courts do waive filing fees for the poor

• governments do review and change legislation in response to proper requests

• improper government decisions can be judicially reviewed and won

• judge associate ph numbers are available to non-lawyers to expedite matters

• judges & justices do provide reasons for judgment to enable appeals

• judges are always as helpful as possible to polite reasonable self-litigants

• judges deal with dis-respectful nasty fools – as any reasonable person expects

• judges do assist self-litigants up against barristers & solicitors in court if asked

• judges do grant leave of court for a polite & reasonable McKenzie Friend

• judges do grant orders to those representing themselves for good reasons

• judges do identify and reasonably & appropriately deal with vexatious litigants

• judges do protect individuals & community from vexatious litigants

• judges do refer matters to ADR to see if negotiated settlements are possible

• judges do write very helpful speeches – expert tips from the horse's mouth

• judgments can be appealed (within eg. up to ~28 days) except some tribunals

• legal studies classes are available in high-schools

• magistrates do allow those suspended work hour licenses where appropriate

• police do need good reasons to oppose bail - eg. high risk of repeated violence

• ratio of successful appeals to judgments made is generally very low eg ~.0001%?

• Supreme Court Qld does allow clients to directly instruct barristers – link to a Practice Direction from Chief Justice Paul de Jersey 12^th September 2006 http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/PracticeDirections/Supreme/SC-PD-2of2006.pdf

• supreme courts do allow access to their libraries for polite well-dressed people

• those aggrieved with any court decision can air on tv, radio, papers & internet

• those in custody can apply for bail - I wonder if bail application success is 90+%?

• tv radio & print have in court resources to report cases the way they see them

• plus a whole lot more... under construction

Obviously most of the above may also apply to other courts to some degree in
NSW, VIC, TAS, SA, WA, NT & ACT – not just QLD.
And in all jurisdictions – not just eg. Supreme Courts.

It's important to remember that every year – so many facets of how the legal system and the courts can work for you keep on getting better and better.

Keep all of the above in mind as you read questionable solicitor and court behavior.

The ministry has formed a view that for the following reasons, any reasonable person would agree that using solicitors, barristers and the legal system is a very unpleasant experience and causes a lot of preventable and unnecessary cost and stress for clients which then may become a causal factor triggering separation, divorce, substance abuse, loss in self-esteem, mental health issues, and suicide-ideation.

Questionable Solicitor & Court Behavior

1. compensation for innocent: those found not guilty of a criminal charge are often left destitute and bankrupt by having to pay legal fees – and yet governments do not provide any form of compensation to recover legal fees – even though it does happen in other countries – and in civil matters in Australia the person winning a calim or successfully defending a claim would have a court order that the loser pay the winner's legal cost (unfortunately if the loser has no money or assetts, the winner is unlikely to recover these either) – ministry opinion - surely the right to lay charges and prosecute also creates a duty to compensate the accused if you are unable to prove charges laid? Isn't it? (opinion based on Matthew 7:12)

2. court rules: Judges grant leave to the disadvantage of those self-representing;

3. judge conduct: judges condoning & therefore encouraging solicitors and barristers to ambush self-litigant opponents walking into court, and refusing to allow adjournments and to order on the spot costs against ambusher

4. judge inflammatory remarks: derogatory/insulting to some subpoenaed to testify – tends to cripple & destroy self-esteem of many – some never recover

5. judges citing public interest: making judgments not on the merits of the matter but on what they decide is in public interest – without making orders for the public purse to compensate for interests of any discriminated against in public interest;

6. judges condone perjury: rarely are police officers or witnesses caught out lying under oath ever disciplined, referred to investigating authorities or DPP – would the % of referrals even be .001% of times people are caught out?

7. judges convicting innocent people of crimes: using reverse onus of proof statutes for which there is often no way for the innocent to defend themselves or to prove themselves not guilty – so unfair and a causal factor in suicides

8. judges perjury referrals ignored: "...All we can do, if a judge feels there are concerns... the judge can refer the matter to the Attorney-General's Department. My experience, having done that, is that nothing happens - very rarely, some might be referred to the federal police...." The Age article -

9. judges winking at purjury: “...At the crux of family law's failure is a cynical tolerance for erratic courtroom decisions, with unaccountable judges routinely winking at perjury...” online newsletter -

10. judicial bastardry: making court orders they know, the ministry knows, public servants know, governments & lawmakers know, and solicitors and barristers applying for court orders and charging clients top dollar all know - that public servants do have discretionary power to ignore and fully intend ignoring – the ministry refers to this behavior as world best practice judge & lawyer bastardry

11. legal aid denied: “...regret... on charge of murder... application for legal aid is denied...” (shaking my head as I write having personally viewed such a letter!)

12. legal aid denied: many have no choice but to handle all legal issues without solicitors - Eg. WA Legal Aid; - placing enormous stress on whole families

13. police prosecutors mislead courts: continue to prosecute even after complainants withdraw complaints DELIBERATELY MISLEADING COURTS that accused has a case to answer – endemic in Qld since Noel Neuman became Qld Police Commissioner – practice seen as a way of reducing violence and murders in the community ( ministry refers to this in court as 'Police Procedual Prosecution')

14. right to legal representation? Legal Aid is rarely granted. Eg. WA Legal Aid;

15. solicitor accounts: some solicitors as of Nov 2007 don't itemise accounts at all – some do – (this firm not associated with college)

16. solicitor ambush: speech by Justice Bergin on NSW Supreme Court on solicitor ambushing – ie. deliberately withholding documents from opponents until they are walking into court and have no chance of getting legal advice on the content – which gives an unfair advantage to their clients - “The Never Give An Opponent (sucker) An Even Chance Principle” widely practiced by solicitors and barristers

17. solicitor ethics: solicitors engaging expert witnesses on a 'confidential' no win no pay basis – even in breech of the rules governing specific areas of expertise;

18. solicitor ethics: unreasonably putting an opponent to proof by denying what is true (ie. telling lies) and misleading courts is disturbing

19. solicitor expense: fees ranging from $220 - $500 / hr are not affordable for many;

20. solicitor false signatures: solicitors deliberately signing correspondence and court documents using eg. the name of a firm rather than the name of a solicitor and providing a registration number – as is required of and the practice of eg. a JP – Justice of the Peace (Qualified)

21. solicitor fit & proper person test: “The High Court found (unanimously) that a solicitor convicted of child molestation was still a fit and proper person to practise law.” Sydney Morning Herald article – (ministry comment – if a convicted child molester is a fit and proper person to be a solicitor, what crime would someone have to have commited to not be a fit and proper person?)

22. solicitor liens: link - solicitors holding onto your documents until account paid. (In practice, this is like a mower repair shop not returning your mower until repairs have been paid for.) - great Solicitor's Lien Article from principal solicitor Wesley Community Legal Service (not associated with college)

23. solicitor loan shark referrals: solicitors using referrals to loan sharks to have legal fees paid – even in cases where a client has property and no mortgage and should be referred to traditional lenders at much lower bottoms interest rates;

24. solicitor no win no pay traps: learn these from a practicing Qld solicitor – direct link – another solicitor - from a HMAS Voyager survivor out of pocket – neighbourhood dispute - “Bear in mind that it is only the client's solicitor's costs that are contingent, and failure normally means you have to pay your successful opponent's legal costs. Independent legal advice should be obtained before signing such a Cost Agreement.” - actual wording from lawyer website. - and another – (no lawyer or barrister websites are associated with college) – by no win no pay solicitors agreeing to take on your case, you still have to pay your opponents legal fees if you lose. No win no pay is mis-leading. (ministry comments – perhaps laws should force legal adverts to read – No Win No Pay Your Solicitor – But Generally Loser Must Pay Legal Costs Of Winner - if solicitors want to use No Win No Pay – then this is intentionally misleading unless words are added in the same sentence re paying winners legal costs - or it's blatantly misleading)

25. solicitor overcharging: “...NSW Legal Services Commissioner confirmed that about 3000 people a year were complaining about solicitors who overcharged. This included an instance of a solicitor who charged for 27 hours work in one day.” Sydney Morning Herald article.

26. solicitor predatory behavior: advising clients to pursue unwinnable cases because the client has shares, real estate, assets and cash to pay hefty fees, and to use as security as the client loses and solicitors need to pursue them in court for payment of fees – whereas those without money and assets in exactly the same situation are perhaps likely to be told a case is unwinnable by a few;

27. solicitor rorts: photocopy charges of 50 cents to $1.90 / page are viewed as excessive;

28. solicitor upfront fees: having to put $20,000 - $30,000 in solicitors trusts accounts for straight-forward court applications for stays and injunctions is viewed as excessive;

29. solicitors – rogue solicitors: stealing from clients – like all professions and even members of the clergy – eg. “... A ROGUE solicitor who stole from clients to feed his gambling addiction turned over $13 million at casinos in four years, the Supreme Court was told yesterday.. pleaded guilty yesterday to seven counts of theft, three of obtaining financial advantage by deception and one of having a deficiency in his trust account...” - with solicitors its always necessary for buyers to beware;

30. solicitors advising client to settle at last minute: leading them along that they have a strong case and to keep increasing the mortgage on the house and putting money into their solicitors trust account in full knowledge that their client has never had a case and that they will be advising their client to settle or withdraw at the last minute

31. solicitors direct-debiting trust accounts: for their fees and out-goings instead of sending clients accounts like any other business and having to justify fees and charges to clients before a client pays their accounts, and clients having the right to contest fees being charged before fees are debited from trust accounts;

32. solicitors don't adequately explain upfront that costs follow the event to clients: so clients are wholly focused on affording their own solicitor and barrister costs ignorant of the facts on the merits of their case and that if they lose a case – it is likely that the court will order that the losing client also pay the legal fees of their winning opponent

33. solicitors making clients vulnerable: eg. ignoring and not responding to offers to settle at all – let alone within a reasonable time period – eg. Qld UCPR Sections 444 – 448

34. solicitors milking clients: not passing on offers to settle (even accompanied by signed deeds of settlement) to their own clients, or to an opponent, or an opponent's solicitor;

35. solicitors not advising clients they have no case: and milking them dry until inevitably they run out of money or the matter is before court;

36. solicitors not objecting: no objection taken high court - appeal rights may be affected if your solicitors and barristers do not object to, challenge, and request the judge to have recorded in the court record that false evidence has been put before a court;

37. solicitors withdrawing: once a client has run out of money – (ministry comment – this is a complex case by case issue);

38. ...plus a whole lot more... under construction

Special Note on Questionable Solicitor & Court Behavior

It is deemed by the ministry to be in the public interest to maintain a list of “Questionable Solicitor & Court Behavior” and “Well Done Qld Judiciary” for 5 reasons:

1. aggrieved legal system end-users need to keep in perspective that the legal system continues to make many improvements – despite their particular situation; and

2. their negative experiences have been listened to, understood, and continue to be communicated to judges, governments, lawmakers & media, by stakeholders like the ministry, so that those responsible and empowered to make changes have an opportunity to get their side of the story, review whether changes need to be made, and introduce changes; and

3. to do more research and ask more questions before relying on solicitors, barristers, judges, courts and the legal system;

4. the ministry and college's main contention with many of the above is not so much that such practices exist, but those using the legal system are ignorant and niave, too trusting of human nature, and not vigilant enough; and to keep in perspective that

5. the normal behavior of solicitors and barristers is to go to a great deal of effort to provide information to clients before commencement (including information on their websites and in client agreements), but clients don't read, understand or ignore – which are often a causal factor in why they need to use a solicitor, barrister, or the legal system in the first place.

© RG 1973 – 2008. All rights reserved. l ministry l bar l family memorial l yup l l sitemap l